Russia recognizes Georgia areas as independent

right. even if they never asked for the recognition.
i solemnly declare that since now on i recognize Texas as an independent state.
do the same in respect of N.Ossetia and Chechnia. that's all we can do.

Mikki-413445
Too late for that-Putin got it solved in Chechnya....
You can declare or not without any difference :-))))))

You mean Texas isn't an independent state??? ;-)

Probably some day:-))))))) with the under leadership people as G.W.BUSH and his pals!

LOL :)

So what! When the rest of the world does its a story and now they should recognize N. Ossetia as an independent state and Chechnya also right?

The US recognized Kosovo's right to become an independent country over Russia's objection about a year ago. Putin warned then that there would be consequences.

speaking frankly, i like variety.

U are so naive, boys.

Study world history going back thousands of years =
The only periods of long relative peace came when you had only ONE mighty super power.
(eg. Pax Britannica, Pax Romana, Pax Alexander/Greeco, Pax Persia, Pax Assyriaca)

And Never when u had a world with 2 or more powerful competing Powers.

And that's what we are getting again since the fall of the USSR, but now with both Putin's Russia AND China.
Add thermonuclear weapons to the Mix, and it does not look good for us and our kids.

Roxanne, first off your response to the two prior posts is insulting, secondly you are very, very wrong. There never were Pax Britannicas, Greco, Persia, or Assyrian. The Pax Romana was not a period without war, there were countless wars against smaller barbarian nations and skirmishes with the Seleucid's to the east in modern day Turkey, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia. The Pax Romana refers to the period without any significant INTERNAL civil wars within the empire, more specifically, where the capitol of Rome itself was free from the fear of attack. If you are going to be condescending and insulting towards others then at least get your facts straight.

will mauthe
Better late than never....

And how many people were killed or oppressed to obtain and maintain that consolidation of power Roxanne? In the modern world, nobody nukes their customers and consumers
so just take a chill pill.

@Roxanne: Argument from anecdote is a logical fallacy!!!!!

Not so fast: "Monoculture is dead and buried".....

and if there can be peace with only one super power then plz got dont make it america again .... look at the mess they have caused in the last 17 yrs ... and plz make americans understand that others too can attack for strategic inetersts in name of democracy so that they can give up their stupid excuses

Get your mind straight...
It's USA who makes a Cold War with twisted news from ABSNEWS MSNBC etc....
and a cold war mentality is in your head! charles0390-1

mmmm yeah .. America, Great Britain, France (for about the second time in their lifes got some), oh yeah ALL of the EU, and yeah just about the rest of the world agree that Russia has violated not just international law but an agreemnt which THEY signed... not talking about the peace agreement that they signed and ignored but the U N Resolution they signed. Plus the fact that every news agency .. accept Russian and CNN(Communist News Network) agree that as far as anyone can tell Russia sent troops and civilians into Southern Ossetia in the first place to cause trouble and start the problems with Georgia. Even with this in mind America asked the Georgian President NOT to do anything. America was the one trying to keep it calm Russia was the one that started this war. Now if Georgia did go in and commit attrocities I agree with what they got back but that does not appear to be the case from news stories from other news agencies with no vested intrest and reporters who were really there. It appeared to me that both sides were just rag tag millitia shooting at anything that moved. What I get sick of seeing is everyone saying that America is the only one going against them. All these people that would have have us believe that we deserved 911 and that there was a "reason" behind it and we should find out why they hate us and try and ask forgiveness from them. What do they want? why do they hate us? Because they want to tell us how to think and what to wear and how to believe and if you don't then your the enemy. There is no Negotiating or understanding that there is only fighting against it and defending our selves. So first off get over your America hating ways and go look and see that your own country is against Russia too. Unless of course you are in Russia.

mmmm yeah .. America, Great Britain, France (for about the second time in their lifes got some), oh yeah ALL of the EU, and yeah just about the rest of the world agree that Russia has violated not just international law but an agreemnt which THEY signed... not talking about the peace agreement that they signed and ignored but the U N Resolution they signed. Plus the fact that every news agency .. accept Russian and CNN(Communist News Network) agree that as far as anyone can tell Russia sent troops and civilians into Southern Ossetia in the first place to cause trouble and start the problems with Georgia. Even with this in mind America asked the Georgian President NOT to do anything. America was the one trying to keep it calm Russia was the one that started this war. Now if Georgia did go in and commit attrocities I agree with what they got back but that does not appear to be the case from news stories from other news agencies with no vested intrest and reporters who were really there. It appeared to me that both sides were just rag tag millitia shooting at anything that moved. What I get sick of seeing is everyone saying that America is the only one going against them. All these people that would have have us believe that we deserved 911 and that there was a "reason" behind it and we should find out why they hate us and try and ask forgiveness from them. What do they want? why do they hate us? Because they want to tell us how to think and what to wear and how to believe and if you don't then your the enemy. There is no Negotiating or understanding that there is only fighting against it and defending our selves. So first off get over your America hating ways and go look and see that your own country is against Russia too. Unless of course you are in Russia.

mmmm yeah .. America, Great Britain, France (for about the second time in their lifes got some), oh yeah ALL of the EU, and yeah just about the rest of the world agree that Russia has violated not just international law but an agreemnt which THEY signed... not talking about the peace agreement that they signed and ignored but the U N Resolution they signed. Plus the fact that every news agency .. accept Russian and CNN(Communist News Network) agree that as far as anyone can tell Russia sent troops and civilians into Southern Ossetia in the first place to cause trouble and start the problems with Georgia. Even with this in mind America asked the Georgian President NOT to do anything. America was the one trying to keep it calm Russia was the one that started this war. Now if Georgia did go in and commit attrocities I agree with what they got back but that does not appear to be the case from news stories from other news agencies with no vested intrest and reporters who were really there. It appeared to me that both sides were just rag tag millitia shooting at anything that moved. What I get sick of seeing is everyone saying that America is the only one going against them. All these people that would have have us believe that we deserved 911 and that there was a "reason" behind it and we should find out why they hate us and try and ask forgiveness from them. What do they want? why do they hate us? Because they want to tell us how to think and what to wear and how to believe and if you don't then your the enemy. There is no Negotiating or understanding that there is only fighting against it and defending our selves. So first off get over your America hating ways and go look and see that your own country is against Russia too. Unless of course you are in Russia.

mmmm yeah .. America, Great Britain, France (for about the second time in their lifes got some), oh yeah ALL of the EU, and yeah just about the rest of the world agree that Russia has violated not just international law but an agreemnt which THEY signed... not talking about the peace agreement that they signed and ignored but the U N Resolution they signed. Plus the fact that every news agency .. accept Russian and CNN(Communist News Network) agree that as far as anyone can tell Russia sent troops and civilians into Southern Ossetia in the first place to cause trouble and start the problems with Georgia. Even with this in mind America asked the Georgian President NOT to do anything. America was the one trying to keep it calm Russia was the one that started this war. Now if Georgia did go in and commit attrocities I agree with what they got back but that does not appear to be the case from news stories from other news agencies with no vested intrest and reporters who were really there. It appeared to me that both sides were just rag tag millitia shooting at anything that moved. What I get sick of seeing is everyone saying that America is the only one going against them. All these people that would have have us believe that we deserved 911 and that there was a "reason" behind it and we should find out why they hate us and try and ask forgiveness from them. What do they want? why do they hate us? Because they want to tell us how to think and what to wear and how to believe and if you don't then your the enemy. There is no Negotiating or understanding that there is only fighting against it and defending our selves. So first off get over your America hating ways and go look and see that your own country is against Russia too. Unless of course you are in Russia.

mmmm yeah .. America, Great Britain, France (for about the second time in their lifes got some), oh yeah ALL of the EU, and yeah just about the rest of the world agree that Russia has violated not just international law but an agreemnt which THEY signed... not talking about the peace agreement that they signed and ignored but the U N Resolution they signed. Plus the fact that every news agency .. accept Russian and CNN(Communist News Network) agree that as far as anyone can tell Russia sent troops and civilians into Southern Ossetia in the first place to cause trouble and start the problems with Georgia. Even with this in mind America asked the Georgian President NOT to do anything. America was the one trying to keep it calm Russia was the one that started this war. Now if Georgia did go in and commit attrocities I agree with what they got back but that does not appear to be the case from news stories from other news agencies with no vested intrest and reporters who were really there. It appeared to me that both sides were just rag tag millitia shooting at anything that moved. What I get sick of seeing is everyone saying that America is the only one going against them. All these people that would have have us believe that we deserved 911 and that there was a "reason" behind it and we should find out why they hate us and try and ask forgiveness from them. What do they want? why do they hate us? Because they want to tell us how to think and what to wear and how to believe and if you don't then your the enemy. There is no Negotiating or understanding that there is only fighting against it and defending our selves. So first off get over your America hating ways and go look and see that your own country is against Russia too. Unless of course you are in Russia.

@!$%#.

Russia cannot get away with disrupting international peace, even if Shakashvili made a mistake. Georgia has paid dearly for this mistake already. But Russia wants more than she can chew. She wants to change the balance of power of the world because some hotheaded president of a tiny republic miscalculated and overreacted! This cannot stand! There are mechanisms in the free world to prevent that balance be upset! My feeling is that this is NATO's job. NATO must assert its authority in protecting the world! If NATO cannot do it alone, all Western nations must lend a hand. I do not think that the diplomacy has been exhausted. I haven't heard the position of China, India, England, Germany, Spain, and France. They should organize a peacekeeper contingent to relieve Russia on what is Georgian territory, pending a UN resolution!

US NEEDS TO CONCENTRATE THEIR ATTENTION ON A SUKASHVILI MORE AND REPLACE HIM, AND EVERYTHING WILL BE OK

desert voice- I'm pretty sure NATO is Europe it was made to litterally stop communism -,-"
now look at where we are i say UN needs to do more

OK Roxxanne, but what stops China and Russia from just deciding to work together exclusively on certain trade like Oil & Natural Gas in exchange for dollars. Lest you forget, the US is in no position to get China to do anything that does not benefit China. The China price, due to their Weapon of Mass Production is the lowest price in the World and the US like most countries is hooked on cheap, quality goods albeit counterfeit goods account for a good percentage of that production.

Seems like an effective plan if only the Europeans would go for it except it would probably result in much higher fuel costs and a very cold winter for them. They will have decide their own priorities and morals for themselves.

Not sure about China wanting to get involved in this, so far they have not said or done much. Looks like they're playing the middle right now not wanting to offend either side.

But yes, Russia would suffer greatly with no outside trade.

Roxanne2Sweet
Thanks much to Sir Capitan Louis who replied to your opinion!

The U.S. isn't in a position to dictate to Russia and especially China. We are too dependent on foreign sources of capital and oil. We have huge deficits across federal, state, and local governments, as well as record consumer debt. A large percentage of our debts are held overseas. Our financial firms received infusions of foreign capital from Asia and the Middle East to keep their firms and the stock market afloat. Our economy is fragile right now, and no one really talks truthfully about inflation and the mortgage mess to name just a few.
We have also done a poor job of reassuring the Russian people of our intentions in their neck of the woods. Putin is former KGB so he's not the ideal guy to work with, but we went too fast and far in trying to expand NATO right to their doortstep. We needed to take our time and make incremental steps and allow globalization, global culture, and economic interdependence create changes on the ground first. There was a lack of patience on our part. I understand the former countries of the Soviet Union fear Russian power and have turned to us, but we also needed more respect for the changes the Russian people face and to show a liitle awareness to their situation and fears. It didn't help that Russian felt betrayed on Kosovo, and the breakaway republic empowered by it, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Yes it will be hard for us. But are you ready to supply in Europe your oil? (Your reserve is bad. Half of a year maximum). Or you propose them to return in IXX century?

funny, didnt think you guys were even there yet......haqrd??...hard for you would be eating snow and hoarding oil.....even massive amount of vodka wont get you thru this

Roxanne2sweet, Your ramblings about the Stupid Europeans is so fundamentally ignorant. Is it because the Stupid Europeans do not always agree with the Stupid Americans? In case you do not know, there are over 300mil. European Citizens who simply do not always agree with America!

Its a god example that you are little boy who cant give a proper answer. Just throing a stupid words.

I live in Russia, and I have not seen any assistance from the United States and the West in 90ies. Technology? We had to buy it. Financial support? Only in debt, under great interest, and in exchange for predatory agreements with foreign companies. Learning democracy? West acknowledged the fraudulent Eltsin's elections in 1996.

Russia adopted western economic policies and capitalism in which your country benefited greatly from. You would not be in the situation you are in without that assistance. Do you deny that? Under soviet era times, can you honestly say that the people of your country lived freely? I don't know, you tell me. Of course, that's how media here portrayed it but it could be vice-versa and that's how your media portrayed it. It could be that both sides were exaggerated. It wouldn't be the 1st time that media portrayed events inaccurately and biased. Perhaps citizens in both country are under wrong impressions about one another. I have no ill feelings toward Russian citizens but do believe very much that Putin and his replacement, Mededev are moving back to soviet policies and state control over everything that rings all to similar to USSR brutality. Just like I am sure you think little of the US government and it's leaders. Would you agree that this is the case?

Well, I enjoy that freedom, that is true, thanks you, West, I love you! I also wish to thank the extra bread coupon, and carrot tea, for my happy childhood. And those millions of people who died in the 90ies no longer be able to thank the West for what they have been able freely to die.
Do not take me as the fool, I hate the Soviet Union, I do not like Putin, I have a neutral attitude to Medvedev, but the West helped Russia "on the path of freedom" was not of kindness, but to remove military and political rival. That policy is being pursued by Putin and Medvedev - is only a mirror reflection of Western foreign policy, and it is supported by most citizens of the Russian Federation, and therefore democratic.
With the breakup of the Soviet Union we, Russian, learned a simple lesson - "idealism in foreign and domestic policy is dangerous for the country and its people." But U.S. and EU have not yet understood, and are turning into the path of the second Soviet Union.

yeah, right. that's a common russian ( and not only) public mood nowadays. i'm with you on this, erazer.

Eraser was right. The United States, I hate to admit this, did very little to really help the Russians after the fall of the Soveit Union. Russia was a country that was, and still is in many respects, ruled by autocratics regimes. Helping Russia transition into a true democracy with a stable and fair capitalistic system would have taken at least a decade of careful advising and careful investment of capital by the United States government. We did not do that, we instead gave them in essence an introduction primer to democracy and flooded them with debt. I do not want to say the current situation is our fault, because the United States isn't responsible for the Putin regime, however, our actions as country do play a small part.

USAjdh7677
You can not be serious- most ethnic Russian has sized to exist!
You do not know what are you talking about....
Make a journey to Russians regions and you'll see with your eyes of very much "prosperity" and" flourished" economy which based on Western technology.
Who are kidding to?

It's not America's fault that the Russian leadership hasn't shared the wealth.

American does?!

Your comments don't make any sense to me. I think you are asking if the American leadership shares the wealth....in a way yes. It's called capitalism. You get further by working hard and not with your hand out.

LOL

SRBIJA 1
That is American policy from the beginning 20 century(end of 19 century).
Nobody argue that the politics generally dirty business and many countries do it however for some well -known reasons US Government want to do what ever its feel like in order to be a World Policemen! Everything has its own limit.

of course man, the USA owns the planet, are you just figuring this out?

Not so many people smart as you are:-))))
Read all comments You'll have learned some-things:-))))("WHOLE NINE YARD"-movie)

Exactly, this is all about securing an oil pipeline. As if our gov. is really fretting about the democracy or Georgia or the provinces. Russia is pissed that the US wants to have complete control over the oil going west from the Caspian. Imagine if Russia came over and tried to control and oil pipeline in Mexico.

and who brought it all on poor georgia? ossets? no! russians? no! your own Saka with his nationalistic and far from common sense aspirations cooked it all for you. now it's time to eat it, buddy.

I have a feeling that the Russians new that occupying the country would not be worth the effort. According the the latest casualty reports, though in all fairness the Georgian military casualties could be understated, the Russians lost far more men than I would have expected them too in a short five day war against Georgia. With Chechnya next door I doubt the Russians could handle an armed rebellion in Chechnya and an armed resistance Georgia without losing alot of face and clout.

Agreed, it was not worth the effort of occupying or the risk of direct military confrontation with the U.S. Neither side really wants to risk war with each other.

Moscow knows just how far they can go and will take as much advantage of that as it can. Hopefully no one will make a fatal miscalculation of each others tolerance and patience.

"free elections my ass"
Like Bush was the one elected the first time around, and you don't think Bush and his croonies are thugs and bullies?
Bush lied to the american people about WMD's in Iraq, so he could invade and kill Sadam which was nothing more then a personal vendetta
Rice states that Russia can't just invade a country and seize its capital - that it was not 1960 something anymore, but has she never heard of Iraq or Bagdad?
"the last thing we can afford is another cold war with Russia! "
and did they think putting a missle defence system in Poland was not going to offend the Russians? Your leaders have provoked this, just look at the weapons the georgians used - american, and the training they received - trained by Americans. If you truely beleive that your governemt didn't have a larger role to play in this then you are foolish, the american people should be asking some pretty tough questions of thier own administration right now as opposed to blindly following your leaders in thier oil crusades

Kevin in Texas
"Be afraid,be very afraid"...( "A you afraid of the dark?"-scary story for kids)
If seriously, you think as G.W.Bush and his cronies.

Well Said!!!

Kev,relax, no-one is gonna invade Taxes.:-))))
There are couple lousy rickety oil-well in short it just not worth it :-)!

To Mefisto.....I think George W. is an idiot that should have been impeached after he faked documents about Iraq's supposed WMD's, and those of us in Texas aren't scared of anyone invading us, we have more guns per capita than any other state! You Yankees don't want to admit the importance of Texas but if we were a sovereign nation we would be the 5Th largest oil exporting country! So you can take you're Yankee sarcastic attitude and stick it!

To Canadian-416599.....I'll bet you love living NEXT to the greatest country in the world. Canada doesn't need a military because we take care of you! And I agree with you about my government, but don't worry, change is coming! But in Russia it's the same with Medvedev because he's Putin's puppet!

"Bush lied to the american people about WMD's in Iraq"

Ummm, he did? I guess the millions that died when a chemical WMD killed them in Iraq mean nothing, nor the three dozen jets found buried in the sand with missing weapons housings and chemical traces leading away from them, nor the several dozen other traces found. Bush is definitely an idiot, but there was no lie about WMD's. We saw the results of one used there, proving beyond doubt that they exist, and we found proof of more dragged off to who knows where. The whole WMD thing isn't even a debate anymore, the proof was already found several times. I think the man is an idiot, but not for declaring war to, in reality, provide funds for the troops that were already there fighting long before he even took office. I served during the Clinton years, and lost three friends in Iraq while he was in office when we supposedly weren't at war. The troops sure couldn't tell the difference, outside of the lack of proper equipment from tens of thousands of them fighting with no war funding, which has since been corrected. I had my pay reduced by almost thirty percent, and soldiers and sailors weren't all provided with proper protective vests when in battle zones. Declaring war was nothing more than correcting that, but Bush screwed it up by trying to rile people up to support his decision to get them the needed funds by making it sound as if this all was some new action we were undertaking, even though he only increased the troop levels there before the surge by a few percent. You may not agree with our continued fight there since 1980, and Bush adding the title of war yet again to our actions there, but the WMD debate is rather pointless since the proof was already seen and really was just an excuse anyway, since the title would have been declared regardless of who was President since the funds were sorely needed. Any Democrat could have won and we still would have had the title, it was the presentation of that title that botched things up for him. The WMD excuse was a valid one, since the weapons were and are real, and million died very suddenly to provide proof of their effectiveness, but it was simply an excuse to rile the people up. Those who claim that this part was a lie are simply trying to sway votes, the evidence can be seen in millions of bodies dead from a chemical WMD. Oh, I still laugh at the accusation of Bush induced fake documents, especially when there wasn't a single new document that was produced after Bush took over, and every piece was either before he took office, or proof obtained from soldiers and sailors afterwards that has all been confirmed as valid.

ALan H
And now Alan talks.
"As if we're responsible for that 70 year long, 3 day lost weekend known as the Soviet era. That's what screwed up Russia : communism"
Who mastermind future "communists" and where?
Which nationalities was First "Russian" government?
Who stole the victory from Imperial Russia in WWI?
"And the fact that every country that has ever had a Russian soldier in it wants to be part of an alliance that defends its members from having Russian troops once again in them : thats our fault as well?"
I don get this one.
" If the Russian people would ever grow up, and stop allowing themselves to be ruled by murderous thugs, perhaps that would change as well."
That's EXACTLY what the Russians are trying to do now and to talk to others ONLY out of it own interests ,any kind .

And the US has already given Georgia 100s of millions in military aid and helped train their army along with Israel, then backed them with words. It all seems like a pretex for creating a conflict --excuse to be more involved in the region -- and it has.

bry33
What a waste of money!

its simple, the rules don't apply to the USA

From what I have seen and heard in the news interviews with the occupants of S. Ossetia and Abkhazia, the vast majority of the people in those regions do not want to be part of Georgia. Let them have their independence if that is what they desire. The same for other regions where people want their independence. Let them vote and the majority rule on the outcome. We are so for democracy when it suits our purposes and against it when it doesn't. That is hypocrisy at it's worst.

Agreed, neither side wants a cold war that could lead to further escalation and tension.

At this point Georgia really has no choice in Moscow's declaration of independence for the two provinces. The Russian leadership will not recant or change their decision and risk loss of face in their own country and the world watching these events. We can only wait and see how this chess game will progress.

So far China and Taiwan has been pretty quiet with the help of the U.S. but could start up any time without warning. China will probably never formally recognize the independence of Taiwan as it sees Taiwan in the same way the U.S. sees Hawaii or Alaska being a part of America.

No one in the world has a right to declare independence for somebody else. Russia has violated the UN resolutions! South Ossetia and Abkhazia cannot declare independence either, until it is peacefully negotiated in the world forum. If it were so easy to declare independence, the world would be unlivable! Any splinter group, any terrorist militia, would grab a territory and declare it independent! Some would even seek backing of great powers, like Russia or the United States, to do so. Kosovo was a special case, where many nations miscalculated and weighed upon the UN. It was an exercise in stupidity. It was a fatal mistake which I opposed. But, in the absence of other world bodies, we have to rely on the UN and the World Court, and peace-keeping organizations, like NATO, to insure that no power declares independence arbitrarily, hoping that no other mistakes are made again! In the meantime, Russia must be persuaded to resolve this in cooperation with the world, not against the world!

The question is what is the UN going to do about it? Moscow will not change it its decision once made knowing that the UN and NATO barks plenty but is hesitant to bite them. Others can jump up and down screaming foul but who is going make Moscow comply and how do they plan to do so?

They could start with isolating Russia with economic sanctions but some of the UN members will balk at the idea for fear of high cost fuel reprisals from Russia. Threat of force would only escalate the problem especially when it's an empty threat coming from unwilling members. The UN can be effective against smaller and less formidiable countries but not against Putin's Russia.

The effectiveness of the UN and NATO against Russia can only be through unified solidarity
by all members and must accomplished without further delay. Any flinching or hesitancy will only encourage Moscow to become even more arrogant and confident.

Kudos Jim! If more people felt this way the world would be a better place. As far as trade is concerned we should let the price determine what we buy from other countries. If they make it too damn high then just don't buy it until the price becomes realistic. This may not work for everything but a lot of trade is just too one sided.

Jim-448197 We are the Jehovah's Witness of the world

ROFLMAO ;-D

But, seriously, I thought we wanted every group of people on earth free and democratic?? So if Russia is recognizing their independence, isn't this a good thing? I'm not being facetious, I really want to know.

Can anyone explain in layman's terms just what the heck the problem is now???

your probably going to be pretty pissed off when you die and find a big fat asian named Budda sitting up in heaven....

It might be more surprising to find Buddha in Heaven studying and reciting the New Testament with Jesus and Mohammed right along side.

Satan will have to get together with his fallen angels somewhere else much warmer to plan more chaos and strife between superpowers.

Or maybe the universe is just absurd, as Camus would assert.

I endorse this a hundred percent. Without Jesus this won't be solved! The Vatican should already be contacting the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church, to seek common ground. It's not so much what Georgia or Abkhazia, or South Ossetia want, it's all about a civilized peaceful solution! The whole world should pray to Jesus, for this!